That's not how it works

[mme_hardy]

Doug Phillips, the head of one of the foremost Christian-patriarchy groups, Vision Forums, has just resigned after having had something that was almost, but not quite, like an affair.  That's not why I've called you here today.   It's this bit of his resignation letter that put a little extra starch in my amice:

  I am most sensitive to the fact that my actions have dishonored the living God and been shameful to the name of Jesus Christ, my only hope and Savior.

No.   That is not the way it works.   For all I know, the baby Jesus is indeed throwing His pacifier out of the manger, but it's not from shame.   You can't shame God.   You can't dishonor God.   God may be sorry for you, God may be embarrassed for you, God will probably forgive you.   But -- Problem of Evil notwithstanding -- your sins don't make God look bad.  That very sentence is a sign that you've gone way too far down the road of identifying God with yourself.

Comments

[staranise]

Oh, how I love a good theological takedown! Rock on.

His version of apology is far less humbling than admitting he is dishonoured and shamed.

[recessional]

It will never cease to astonish me how little these people think of their god.

[sara]

Ayep. He may have been disrespectful to God by not honoring his marital vows, but no, the only dude he's dishonored here is himself.

Also, if you're not fucking, it's not infidelity. It's maybe a friendship so close that your spouse may ask you some pointed questions, but being friends with an opposite-sex person is not infidelity.

[mme_hardy]

I suspect that some variation of "eatin' ain't cheatin'" is in play.

[sara]

...no, that's cheatin'.

Oh jeez, do you suppose he's one of those dudes who thinks buttfucking doesn't count? UGH UGH UGH.

[malkingrey]

I don't know about that. If the relationship is so intimate that you feel the need to invoke the "But we never actually had sex!" clause, then if it isn't infidelity then it's the next thing to it.

(Also, I will bet you a nickel that the guy comes from a culture where if it doesn't involve vaginal penetration, then it doesn't count as "having sex.")

[sara]

Well, as I said above he may be one of those very questionable people who don't think anal or oral sex is sex (if it weren't it wouldn't be called "sex" it would be called "doing the grocery shopping" or "eating a sandwich" or something else not containing the word "sex" in close proximity to a noun describing a human orifice.)

But I have met conservatives who feel very strongly that it is inappropriate for opposite-sex people who aren't related to be friends, particularly should either of them be married, and that such friendships are tantamount to adultery.

[nineveh_uk]

I once read a blog post that claimed that anyone with more than one friend was polyamorous, so the conservatives aren't alone!

[malkingrey]

Given that "infidelity" is as much a social construct as it is a specific behavior -- then if somebody feels in their own heart that they are being unfaithful, then they probably are. Even if all his/her mind and physical body are doing is having coffee with the other person once a week in a public place.

(My own suspicion is that the relationship most likely involved what used to be known in my long-ago high school days as "heavy petting", which was one stop short of "going all the way" ... and certainly didn't count as actually having sex, because if it did, then there wouldn't have been a virgin left in the state of Texas. Except for possibly me, because I was a late bloomer and didn't discover some things until I went north to grad school.)

[staranise]

Christian patriarchy culture is huge on, "If a man looks on a woman with lust, he has committed adultery with her in his heart." Any, any, any sexual thought or overly affectionate feeling that isn't about your married partner is infidelity. They are hella fucked up about sex. It's all part and parcel.

[sara]

...right, and as someone who's both Christian and related to conservative Christians...I'm aware.

[staranise]

I didn't mean to say you didn't know. I guess the long form is, "Vision Forums and the people who run in that pack are SO uptight about this, I would 100% believe that he kept six inches of air between him and that woman as he said so." By "Christian patriarchy culture" I basically mean "Quiverfull folks", who think anal and oral sex is never okay, as opposed to what you speculated.

[pashazade.livejournal.com]

You can't shame God.   You can't dishonor God.   God may be sorry for you, God may be embarrassed for you, God will probably forgive you.   But -- Problem of Evil notwithstanding -- your sins don't make God look bad.  That very sentence is a sign that you've gone way too far down the road of identifying God with yourself.

Tell it. I look at the evangelical fundamentalist wing and can only think that God to them really is a man sitting on a cloud and you know, just like a person *only more so*. (Herbert McCabe said that Creationism was wrong because it made God into a god, and I remember reading it and thinking "That is it exactly". The ludicrous arguments against the science always irritated me, but the theology of it always struck me as deeply wrong but I could never articulate it simply enough. Sorry, slightly off-topic there.)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Of course he thinks he's God. He's been one of the biggest movers and shakers in the funagelical quiverfull fringe for ages, and he's the son of someone who was very high up in the conservative party. Hell, he PREACHES that his children and wife must submit to him as God!

I've been following this on the ex fundie blogs I read. The next bombshell is that the ministry itself has shut down. No him, no ministry.

HOWEVER he has not stepped down from the part of Vision Forum that sells books and toys and lectures on how to live the lifestyle he could not live up to.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Well said.