To Americans wanting to flee

[mme_hardy]

Believe me, I get it. But it's not as easy as just "moving to [insert country name]". Other countries have immigration laws, too, and you may not qualify, especially if you don't have STEM or medical qualifications.

• Canada has a points system.


• New Zealand has a points system.


• To move anywhere in Europe, you will need a work permit from that country; requirements vary. If your recent ancestors were immigrants, you may have a right of return; again, requirements vary.

Unless US expatriates are categorized as refugees (highly unlikely) you'll need to apply to the new country, and that process can take months to years.

If you think you'll need to go, get all the paperwork you'll need to file now, and realize that you'll be competing with thousands (at least) of other Americans who have decided to move on. We won't be any more welcome in other countries than we make their citizens. (Hint: not.)

And a side note for transpeople: Currently under Obama's policies you can get a passport showing your correct gender with a physician's statement saying 'you've had appropriate clinical treatment', and there's no requirement to have bottom surgery. This policy will almost certainly be reversed by the Trump administration, so apply for your passport now to get legal documentation of your gender. Many states require bottom surgery.

e: Recessional has an invaluable comment about Canadian immigration.

Comments

[recessional]

And even winning the points system just gets you into a POOL of potential expedited candidates, in Canada, from which various amounts are selected depending on quota, with active if unofficial preference for uniting families. (Also any number of other invisible categories.) US citizens do not get preferential treatment.

If you're not married to a Canadian, your best bet, anecdotally, is to get a job and thus a work visa - not necessarily easy in and of itself - and work here for a while and build connections and then apply.

Also note that the checks to see if your marriage is real are pretty intensive (a friend recently did her landed immigrant stuff and we all were handing over pics from gatherings, chat logs, agreeing to be contacted under oath, etc), and ALL OF IT is Paperwork Hell and Bureaucracy Tango.

It can be done. Lots do it every year. But among other things they make it difficult ON PURPOSE, to make you prove you really want to be here. And yeah refugee status is actually quite difficult to get if there is not a currently active shooting or bombing war in your country.

Being bilingual in French is an asset. Knowing Canadian social mores (yes they are different ESPECIALLY in some areas of What Words For Certain Groups Are Okay) and general-knowledge history is an advantage. Knowing stuff about where you want to settle is a huge asset as it does in fact make it look like you're invested in the country.

Being willing to live in small/northern/more isolated communities is an asset especially if your job/education are professional in nature. (Note: yes, different areas have different levels of prejudice etc and this is a good thing to check up on, and no Canada is not made of socialist roses; on the flipside provinces have Waaaaaaaaay Less Leeway in terms of mucking about with legal rights than states have [I often cannot believe the extent that states have], and honestly I would as a queer woman rather go back to Alberta than move to Seattle. *hands*)

And here ends my random spewcomment. *cough*

[mme_hardy]

Thank you. That's incredibly useful.

[recessional]

Np.

Just coming back to add: also everything is different in Quebec. Quebec shares common law based criminal law and structures with the rest of us, but their civil law is totally different from the ground up, so seriously I mean it: everything is different in Quebec.

Also also if you ARE a physician send me a PM, my mother is literally part of recruiting docs to the north-east of this province. *cough*

[mme_hardy]

Interesting! We have the same issue with Louisiana. Basically, if you want to practice law in Louisiana, you get your degree at Tulane. Code Napoléon, baby!

[recessional]

Quebec even predates that: Napoleon's voice hadn't changed when the Brits took Quebec, and yeah, that was part of the agreement - they had to take Brit criminal law, but they could keep the Catholic Church and French civil law.

[mme_hardy]

" Napoleon's voice hadn't changed" Love that phrase.

[legionseagle]

Which is why baby law students at Oxford, the very first exam they take, is 1/3 Constitutional, 1/3 Criminal and 1/3 Roman, because the Institutes of Gaius and Justinian form the basis, with greater of less interference, of the legal systems of a whole heap of places. (South Africa has Romano-Dutch law, which is one of the purest descents from Roman,)

[lizbee]

Australia also has a points system, and will not take people with disabilities or chronic illnesses. Not even children. We have various levels of work visas, but most don't provide a pathway to permanent residency or citizenship.

[mme_hardy]

Thank you.

[lizbee]

Oh, also:

- marrying an Australian to live here is ALSO difficult -- when Dad got married in the mid-2000s, there was a hell of a lot of paperwork, and I had to write several statutory declarations attesting to my belief that his marriage was real. Granted, his wife is a Muslim of Indian descent, but I don't think it's really any easier for white people.

- we do not have marriage equality.

- we WILL allow people's same-sex partners to come here, but only if you've been living together for twelve months, which I guess would involve the Australian partner moving to the US.

Also, Australia has a lot of the same problems as the US, plus a few unique to us. On the upside, our working conditions are better than New Zealand.

[ironed_orchid]

When I married the German we were relieved that his work came through with his Permanent Residency sponsorship not long after, because it meant we wouldn't have our relationship scrutinized. On the one hand, we probably wouldn't have bothered with wedding if his work hadn't dragged their heels, but on the other we're not together anymore so it's a good thing we didn't feel we had to stay together just so he could stay in the country.

[movingfinger]

When I married the Australian in the '80s, there was so much uncertainty about my status in Australia that we stayed in the US instead.

[ironed_orchid]

We really suck :-(

[nineveh_uk]

If you can obtain citizenship of any EU country, that allows you to live and work in any other EU country. This is how an Australian friend of mine moved to the UK thanks to Dutch citizenship via her father. So if you qualify for e.g. Polish citizenship it doesn't matter that you don't speak any Polish, you could use it to get a job in Madrid instead. NB the rights are for free movement of "workers", things can be a bit more complicated if you're not working or planning to work and may vary between countries http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457

[rydra_wong]

And obviously that will no longer work as a route to the UK if Brexit does in fact involve closing the doors to free movement, which is what the delightful crew of crack-addled right-wing loons in charge of us currently seem to be insisting on.

On the other hand, Scotland is strongly pro-immigrant and pro-refugee, and their demographics mean that they'd actually love to take more people to boost population in various areas, but have their hands tied by overall UK immigration policy; if they become independent, that could well change (also they really, REALLY hate Donald Trump).

[ckd]

Irish citizens have some additional rights in the UK that are not dependent on EU/EEA membership, though if Ireland loses their Schengen opt-out and therefore has to exit the Common Travel Area that could change (since under Home Office guidance certain of those rights depend on the CTA agreements).

[mme_hardy]

Thank you!

[rinue]

I have heard Nova Scotia is somewhat keen to attract US refugees, and has a pilot program going in Cape Breton, although I have not known anyone who tested it.